May 7, 2004
Dear Subscriber:

Dads have sons and Dads have daughters.

When Dads raise their sons they teach them things like how to
nail a nail and how to drive and how not to track mud in the

When Dads raise their daughters they spend about 20 years
scared to death. While men think of their sons as clay to be
molded, the often think of their daughters as fine china that
will break in a heartbeat. As hard as they try, men don't
completely understand women...be they wives or daughters.

I ran in to Richard today. Richard's a contractor that works
7 days a week. He works hard. He's a man on a mission.
Richard is my neighbor. When I see his truck leaving for a job
when the sun comes up and see him come home when the sun has
gone, I think I know him. He's the kind of guy that realizes no
one is going to hand it to him. He has to go out and get it.

In the May issue of Cloudcroft's Mountain Monthly newspaper
there were pictures of all the high school graduates. Each
picture is sponsored by a local business. Richard's daughter
Melissa is a graduate.

Richard wanted to sponsor Mellissa's picture in the paper but
he forgot to call the paper. Now he's upset. He thinks Melissa
might think he forgot her.

I have a daughter. I know how delicate the relationship can be.
I also know how much Richard loves his daughter and how proud
he and his wife Teresa are of their girl.

I don't normally pass on personal messages in this column, but
I'm doing it now. Dad and Mom salute you, Melissa. They say
congratulations. They hope your life is filled with happiness.
Good luck in your higher education career at NMSU and your life

I feel a little like Dr. Phil.

While I'm at it, congratulations to all the graduates of
Cloudcroft High. It was no small effort that has brought you
this far. When you go on to higher things and get rich and
famous don't forget me.


I just watched the tribute to Pat Tillman on TV. For those of
you that may not know, Tillman was a professional football
player that gave up a $9,000,000 contract and joined the Army
to fight in the war against terrorism. He was killed in
Afghanistan last week. According to witnesses, his actions in
the battle in which he was killed resulted in several of his
fellow soldiers being saved.

Heroism has many faces. This week I saw a motorist stop
along-side Highway 82 to save a disoriented bull snake that had
curled up in the middle of the road. It's dangerous to walk out
in the middle of a highway. It's also dangerous to handle a
snake (bulls are pretty docile but they'll nip you if they get
mad enough). This guy did it. Not for himself but because he
wanted to give that ole snake another chance to catch some more

There are people like that. People like Pat Tillman that put
others before themselves. People like that guy that saved the
snake. Not because they're looking for glory or someone to
write a story about them...because it's simply the right thing
to do.

If I had gotten there first, I would like to think I would have
saved the snake. If I had been in Pat Tillman's boots, I would
like to think I would have had the fortitude he had and would
have done what he did. The fact is, I don't guess I'll ever

Former Oklahoma Congressman J. C. Watts said it best:

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking."

I'm in my mid-50s and I still have roll models developing
before my eyes. People that love others beyond their love for

Because of people like Pat Tillman and the guy that saved the
snake...my chance to stand up and make a difference is still
out there. Maybe because of them, I'll rise to the occasion.

Don Vanlandingham

A dry week. Relatively calm for early May. Highs in the
low-60s. Lows in the low to mid-30s.
Senator Pete Dominici is seeking over $100,000,000 to upgrade
New Mexico military bases. Fiscal year 2005 funding should be
addressed by the Military Construction Appropriations
Subcommittee in the next few months.
If you are interested in purchasing property in the Cloudcroft
or Alamogordo areas, or just have a curiosity about market
availability or variability, contact the Realtors at American
Southwest Realty for courteous and professional assistance. We
subscribe to the Multiple Listing Service and will be more than
happy to help you review the comprehensive listing of properties
county-wide. We take great pride in the high level of personal
service we provide to our customers and clients.

Please give us a call at (505) 682-8515 or (866) 851-3279 (toll
free) or see the link to our web site on the Real Estate page of




Q - Can firewood be harvested from the National Forest?

A - There are several areas designated as fuelwood areas near
Cloudcroft. A nominal fee is required. Contact the Sacramento
Forest Office (505) 682-2551.
May 6 and 8 -- Little Women. Play by Alamogordo High School.
Flickinger Center.

May 7 -- An evening with comedy writer Don Foster. Flickinger

May 8 -- Old Timer's Reunion. Cloudcroft.

May 8 and 9 -- Heritage Preservation Days. Oliver Lee Park.

May 29 -- Flea market and garage sale. 9am - 5pm. Cloudcroft
Elementary School parking lot. $15 booth rental. Booth rental
will benefit Cloudcroft Schools. Contact D'dre Brock, 687-3263.

May 29, 30 -- Mayfest. Cloudcroft.

June 12 -- Miss New Mexico "Show Me Your Shoe" Parade. Golf
Tournament at the Lodge Golf Course. Proceeds go to the
Scholarship Account for the Miss NM Contestants.

June 18, 19, 20 -- Western Roundup. Cloudcroft.

June 19-20 -- High Rolls Cherry Festival. 9am - 5pm each day.
Food, drink, cherry and cherry products, activities for kids,
arts/crafts vendors. (505) 682-1151

June 25-27 -- Chimney Spring Bluegrass Festival. For more
information call 505-687-3520.

July 10, 11 -- July Jamboree. Cloudcroft.

July 23-25 -- Singing in the Clouds. Gospel singing, solo's,
trio's, quartet's, and a lot of group singing by all.
(325) 691-9123.

September 19 -- Gary Johnson’s Cloudcroft Run. World’s highest
certified 10k run. For more information call 505-687-2133.

October 2, 3 -- Oktoberfest. Cloudcroft.

Cloudcroft Art Society meets the second Sunday of each month,
2-4pm, in the Old Red Brick School House. Call (505) 682-3004
for more information and details on the Cloudcroft Summer Art

Cox Canyon Volunteer Fire and Rescue is organizing an
auxiliary unit. If you would like to help support this group
of dedicated men and women, call 682-3084, 682-4664, 682-3719
or 682-3234.

Would you like to help deliver meals to the homebound around
Cloudcroft? Monday through Friday deliveries. Call the
Cloudcroft Senior Center at (505)-682-3022. For information on
other Senior Center services, see their web site, listed on the
Cloudcroft.com Links button.


Mountain Garden Club meets every third Monday of each month.
Call (505) 682-2910 for more information.

Senior Van from Timberon to Alamogordo leaves the Timberon
Lodge promptly at 8:30 every Tuesday morning.

Free Vitals Clinic. Cloudcroft Senior Citizens Center, every
Wednesday. High Rolls Senior Citizens Center, first Thursday
of each month.

For an online calendar of area events, click the Events Calendar
link in the left column of our home page:


Note: We received over 50 letters on the toilet seat issue,
more than any other subject in the 4 years we have put out
the Newsletter. Here are a good sample. Space limitations
prevent us from publishing more, but thanks to everyone who
sent their comments. All were great.
Dear Newsletter:

As you alluded, both seat and lid down seems reasonable... 
everyone does the same amount of work.

However, discussions like this (and the paper roll) often
aren't about reason, but power.

You can tell whether your situation is one that will succumb
to reason by proposing that as a solution. If the answer is
that the ONLY acceptable solution is for everyone to leave the
seat the way SHE likes it, then this is a power issue and you
have to deal with it on that level (by which I mean, give up).

In other words, if there has to be a winner, there can never
be a compromise.

Jim Mack
Plymouth, MI

Dear Newsletter:

Seat up is a dangerous thing for a woman in the middle of the
night, when half asleep. (Have you ever fallen in?...ick talk
about germs!) Seat down for a man in the middle of the night
just means extra clean-up!

I can deal with it otherwise, but I don't think it looks very

A woman in Texas with no man to leave the seat up 

Dear Newsletter:

Well I certainly heard that can being opened all the way over
here in Fort Worth. So, here goes. The correct way of course
is completely closed since babies can drown in them.

But as for those without kids and have a woman and a man living
in the same house it is down of course. Men use it in both
positions and women only use it in one. That one being the
common factor for both wins out. Just let me know if you need
any other help solving any other problems.

Love your newsletter and your GREAT town.

Janise Coffman

Dear Newsletter:

Regarding toilet seats--A man uses the seat up when he is
standing, the seat down when he is sitting. A woman doesn't
stand to use the toilet--she sits.

Therefore, since sitting down on the toilet is used by both men
and women, the seat should be down, which is the most commonly
used position.

I have gone to the toilet at night and have fallen in when the
seat is up. It is quite cold and makes you feel very unsanitary.

I, also, like your wife, will nudge the seat to let it down.
It isn't something I enjoy touching.

Thank you,
Cathy Vaughn
Friendswood, Texas

Dear Newsletter:

In my house, toilet seat down is the rule. An argument my
husband and I had several years ago finally ended with my
victory. Since my husband is a man who must have the facts to
be proven wrong, I though long and hard on how to convince
him that toilet seat down should be the rule. Then I came up
with the following analogy that he finally couldn't disagree

The fact is that both men and women "deposit" items "one"
and/or "two" in the toilet at any given time. Men put the
seat "up" for item "one" and down for item "two". Women need
the seat down for both items "one" and "two". Therefore, the
seat needs to be down to "deposit" three out of four "items"
by any cohabitating couple. That is roughly 75% of the time,
therefore "toilet seat down" wins. 


Dear Newsletter:

The toilet seat should always be down, and I am not of the
female persuasion. Too many bathrooms have cabinets, etc.,
above the toilet. If you are clumsy like I am, things can
fall from the cabinets into the toilet if the lid is up.
Yuck! Besides, you can't see if it is clean if the lid is
down and can ignore cleaning for a while. Just my opinion.

Lee Phillips

Dear Newsletter:

I have written you several times, once while in Iraq, and was
delighted to see one of my letters printed. Please allow me to
be one of the first to reply to the toilet seat controversy.

As an NCO in the military I expect my human subordinates to
stand when I enter a room and/or address them. I consider my
toilet a subordinate because of what its there for, to serve
me. Likewise, my porcelain subordinate will always be standing,
ready for inspection, when I enter the bathroom. Considering 
today's climate there will be no tolerance for disrespectful

For the non-military, consider this, the bathroom is often
referred to as the throne room, our throne room. The throne 
is the one place in all the universe where a man can get some
peace and quiet and do some insightful reading. Now, if the
bathroom truly is our throne room then it is part of our
kingdom. As King of my domain, I have sent an edict throughout
all of Mahurinland that all of my subjects will stand whenever
I enter my throne room. Gentlemen of the world, we must show
solidarity when it comes to our Kingdoms, we must not, we can
not, allow our toilets to lay down when we enter our throne

As such, I have prepared a simple fill-in the blank edict that
can be filled out and placed on the doors our throne rooms to
let our subjects know our royal expectations.

J. Wesley Mahurin, TSgt, USAF

Royal Edict From

Unto all the loyal subjects of
__________land, His Majesty
sends greetings and proffers
the following command:

From this day, henceforth,
all toilets will have their seats
up at all times so that His
Majesty will enjoy the proper
respect due one of his high

So say I, His Majesty
King ______________

Dear Newsletter:

Regarding the TP issue - I think whoever cleans it gets the
right to determine the lid placement. 
Look forward to your newsletter each week. Wish we were there!
Jo Ellen Bailey
Port Arthur, TX

Dear Newsletter:
I agree with the male perspective on this issue! The seat
should be left up. My girlfriend, however strongly disagrees!

A couple of months ago, she went into the bathroom and sat
down before turning on the light. I had left the lid up & she
had a very unpleasant experience. Now, the lid goes back down
when I leave the room, more out of survival than courtesy!
Skip Love 
San Antonio 

Dear Newsletter:

In answer to should the seat stay up or down. Have you ever
thought about a woman going into the bathroom at night with no
lights on and falling in the toilet because the seat was up? Do
you know where you would be sleeping for the rest of the month?
Certainly not in your comfortable bed!

Alice Rekeweg
Kingwood, Texas

Dear Newsletter:

First off, let me state that I am female so my theory is
probably slanted towards the "down" position of said toilet

But, in all fairness, if I have to use the toilet in the middle
of the night, in order not to waken anyone, I generally do not
turn on any lights. It is hard to tell if the seat is up or
down in the dark until you sit down and end up with a wet tush
because you expected there to be a seat!

So, in my effort to be considerate of other sleepers, I have
occasionally suffered the consequences. The fact should also
be considered that occasionally men use the seat in the lowered
position. Given the fact that if you have a two person household
and one person, the female, uses the seat lowered 100% of the
time and the other person, the male, uses the seat lowered,
hopefully at least once a day, said seat is in fact in its
natural "down" position most of the time. Why then would a
woman expect to find the seat in the raised position?

On the other hand, if the household is not equally divided
between male and female, as was my case when raising a husband
and three boys, the female will learn never to expect the seat
to be in the down position. Perhaps, in such a case the answer
to the problem would be to install a urinal and to leave the
darn seat down at all times on the toilet thereby eliminating
the controversy.

Diane Elliott

Dear Newsletter:

Ah, the great toilet seat debate.

Being female, I'm among those who prefer the seat down, both
esthetically (up looks tacky) and for my convenience. Selfish?
Perhaps. Here's another perspective on the subject. I don't
suppose you've ever wandered half asleep into a dark bathroom
in your home, sat down and found yourself "in the toilet bowl"
instead of "on the seat".

While that no doubt conjures an amusing image for some, I can
testify it is all of the following: infuriating, wet, cold,
painful and potentially dangerous...especially for elderly
members of the fair sex. It's happened to me only once (having
blistered ears seems to improve a man's memory) and that was
once way too many. 

Have a heart guys. Put the seat down. 

Dallas, TX

Dear Newsletter:

I have just finished reading the "toilet seat" newsletter and
could not stop myself from commenting.

In my house, I want the toilet seat and the lid down at all
times - not just to be a good hostess. My reason is one you
hit on. I have a dog and I don't want him drinking from the
toilet. I don't think it would kill the dog to drink dirty
water, but have you ever sat down on a wet toilet seat? Not a
great feeling!

If you are not inclined to put both the seat and the lid down,
I have to argue for at least putting the seat down. Scenario
to support my argument: when a person gets up in the middle
of the night and sleepily sits down on the toilet they like 
to come in contact with a toilet seat...not toilet water! It
is quite a rude awakening to have cold toilet water hit your

I am sure the argument will go on for centuries to come or
until the invent some new kind of toilet to solve the problem. 

Hagerman, NM

Dear Newsletter:

Concerning the toilet seat being placed up or down:

The lady prefers the seat down because if she were to get up
in the middle of the night to go the restroom, if the seat
were up, she would go down, "into the water". It is just a 
natural courtesy for men to be "gentle" men and place the seat
back down when they are finished.

Thank you,
Lynda Bean

Dear Newsletter:

Each person should leave the toilet seat in the preferred
position for the other person. They will probably need it
before you need to come back, and besides, there is not as
much hurry after as there is before. Anyway, it's a little
thing you can do to show you love them. . . 

Danny Wiseley

Dear Newsletter:

I am the only male in my house. Even the cats are female. I
have gotten in the habit of ALWAYS putting the toilet seat
down. I do not get complaints and it has another advantage;
If ever I find the toilet seat left up, I know there's been
another man in the house.
Put it down, guys. Even with equal rights it's the most
courteous thing to do since our "business" is not always
conducted standing up.
Steven Wagner
El Paso, Texas

Dear Newsletter:

Two things. First, the toilet seat up or down. I say that both
sexes should put it down ALL THE TIME. That is equality. Both
are equally inconvenienced, so share the pain.

Second, toilet paper over the top or down the back. For me it's
always down the back, and most people with cats might agree.
If it's over the top, it's dangling, therefore, a cat toy. If
it's down the back, it's much less obvious to the feline
looking for a toy.

Wayne West
Phoenix, AZ

Dear Newsletter:

Obviously, you have not gone into a semi-dark bathroom, at 
3 A.M., and sat in cold water. If you had there would be no
survey. You would know.....all three seats down, at all times,
unless potty is in use.
No names, please. Just use this as a "seat down" vote!

Dear Newsletter:

Hi Don, One of the great joys of living alone is that it 
doesn't matter which way you leave the toilet seat. I do try
and remember to clean the toilet when I expect company, and
put both lids down!

Jack Schuller

Dear Newsletter:

To raise or not to raise,
that is the question.
When you raise the toilet seat, you give it
energy by moving a mass (the toilet seat)
against gravity to a higher level.
Had we left the seat down, it would just be
mass at rest, with less energy to expel, unless,
of course it just fell off the toilet.
Eventually the raised toilet seat will expend the
energy you gave it, lifting it up, by hitting the
dog in the back of its head when it drinks.
As far as leaving it up or down. Texas is a community
property state. Ones spouse owns half of what the other
Yep, I put it down.
Lanty Wylie
Hideaway, Texas

Dear Newsletter:

Obviously, being a man, you have never gone into that resting
room in the middle of the night, in the dark, eight months
pregnant, and sat down (more like fallen down) in the cold
water. That is an experience you don't soon forget, nor does
your spouse. Male visitors to our home get two, "oh, I forgot
to put the seat down", and then they are politely asked to use
someone else's facilities. Hope this brightens your wife's day. 
Enjoy Thursday's and your newsletter.
Sometime resident of CC

Dear Newsletter:

You dismiss out-of-hand the cover seat issue. I believe the
cover seat should always be lowered after using the facility.

However my female companion pointed out that she may very well
let go on the cover seat at night in the dark if I continue to
replace it after use. With that threat in mind, I no longer
lower the cover seat, but not without disdain and regret. 

What is the cover seat for anyway? Why, it's for closing the
toilet when not in use, of course! Get your dog a water dish!
What a great topic! Please publish many of your better replies.

Robert McIntire
St Louis, MO (via Carlsbad class of 1963--and many other stops
along the way.)

Dear Newsletter:

Just what kind of rebel-rouser are you?

As to your question of "up or down":

His house...up

Her house...down

Their house...If you are in New Jersey the question does not
apply as the thick fuzzy tank cover will make both seats drop
down. If the male cleans the under side of seat and rim each
time, okay, I'll turn on the light and look, if not down.
I think it is mainly that the rim is not always dry and the
water is cold. But if you have little ones, be very glad when
the seat is up.

A loyal reader
Dana Quarrier

Dear Newsletter:

It is a matter of probabilities. Since men sometimes need the
toilet seat down, but women never need the seat up, the seat
will be more often in the correct position for the next user
if it is always left in the down position. 

(Figures unadjusted for constipation and urination frequency

Glenn Joy
Austin, Texas

Dear Newsletter:

I don't care where he leaves it. Just as long as he raises
it to use.

High Rolls. 

Dear Newsletter:

OK here it is about the toilet seat: Yes the lid needs to be
down all the time because the dogs may just drink out of it
(yuck!), and it looks better! Also, if everyone puts the lid
down then everyone has to lift it up! Even Steven, equal for
Thanks for the great new letter.

D'Niese Mills
Mayhill, NM

Dear Newsletter:

In reference to your Newsletter #212 dated April 30, 2004,
subject: toilet seat position up or down? I am writing to
express my opinion about this very controversial topic. 

In researching this topic on the internet, I came across the
perfect solution - an foot-activated auto-lift device 


This thing takes all the work/germs out of lifting/replacing the
seat and it's easy to install and kind of fun to operate!

Best wishes for future success! 

Rex Swenson 
Niceville, FL 

Dear Newsletter:

I have to say seat in down position. (AT ALL TIMES.)

I have fallen into the toilet too many times during my night
trips to the restroom to say otherwise. That water sure is
I also have a way of nudging the seat down with a loud bang.
Houston, TX

Dear Newsletter:

If a three year old child can be taught to look TWO ways before
crossing the street - why can't a woman figure out how to look 
only ONE way (down) before she sits?
Mr. Enjoying the Couch
El Paso, TX

Dear Newsletter:

I grew up as the only boy in a family of three sisters a mother
and a father, who was smart enough to work nights. Back then I
used to feel sorry for my Dad, having to sleep all day and then
work all night thus missing out on all of the family activities.


I grew to be the father of and live with two daughters. Besides
my wife I also lived with my mother-in-law, two female dogs
and a female Guinea pig. Back then my oldest daughter had a
fish. It may just be me, but I believe the fish was female
also. I base this belief on the looks it would give me and the
remarks it made every time I walked past its bowl. (The fish
didn't really talk; it was more like body language, you'd have
to have been there.)

After spending over five decades living in this way, I've
learned a great deal on survival. I'm thinking that everyone
has read and or seen "The Rules!" Keeping this in mind I'm
sure that most of you men will forgive me when I tell you that
I'll have to side with the ladies on this question of the
toilet seat position.

I vote "DOWN."

Over the years I've found that I could argue a point for ever,
and even if I was right the cost was much higher than I was
willing to pay. My wife or my daughters would ask for
something, or for me to do something and if my answer was no,
I learned that the CONVERSATION about my answer would go on
until I finally gave in. In my younger years those
conversations could last for days. But with age and experience
I've come to realize that it is far easier to just comply in
the beginning thus saving days of stress.

I know what a lot of you guys are thinking out there, and I
really don't care. I'm not allowed to talk to other men anyway.

Bill White
Phoenix, AZ
(T-minis 479 days)

Dear Newsletter:

Well, I thought that the toilet seat cover was ALWAYS left in
the down position when not in use! At least, that is the way
we were taught, & taught our children, when we taught toilet
training and manners, and other such things. I detest seeing
the seat cover up when no one is in the bathroom. It is like
leaving towels strewn on the floor instead of hanging them up
after use.

Enjoy reading the weekly newsletter! Now we have a relative
in Cloudcroft, so we look forward to more frequent visits.

M.S. in Odessa

Dear Newsletter:

First, how clever of you: the “CC-Editor” now appears 
automatically in the Subject line. Too many people omit it,
On the toilet seat question: Here is a calm, objective
rationale for the default position of the toilet seat to be
the down position. Females need the seat down for both toilet
tasks and males need the seat down for one of two toilet
tasks. That’s 3 out of 4 possible toilet tasks that use the
seat in the down position. It’s a simple case of “majority
rules”. (Parenthetically, it is also true that when the seat
is up, the bowl, in its not-necessarily-so-nice entirety, is
revealed for all who may enter to see.)
Thanks for the chance to contribute to this little 
Lyn Canham
Sandia Park, NM

[Letters without CC-Editor in the subject line are very likely
to be filtered out as spam.]

Dear Newsletter:

For about $800.00 one can have a urinal installed in the 
bathroom. (Or next to the bed in the bedroom if you are over
50.) God bless...


Dear Newsletter:

In reference to the toilet seat dilemma, I'll probably be in
the minority, but, I'm a woman who totally agrees with the
concept of "adjust to your own preference". In other words,
if I'm gonna use the toilet I'll make sure the seat is down
and If my hubby is gonna use it he better make sure it's up!

The girls at work think I'm nuts but after twenty-three years
of wedded bliss, this system seams to be working just fine. It
seems we both believe in chivalry. 

Keep up the good work, we love your letters!

Ellen Welch,
Goliad Texas

Dear Newsletter:

Actually, the entire toilet seat issue would be resolved
fairly and equitably if BOTH the man and the woman made sure
BOTH the seat and the lid were down each time they left the

That way, the bathroom would always look presentable, and
both people would be equally responsible for having to
remember something. Also, both male and female would begin
and end with lifting and lowering part of the toilet
apparatus. (By the way, why is the whole germ thing an
issue at all? Don't we ALL wash our hands after using the
Vicki Vaughn
Brownwood, Texas

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The Travel and Visitor's Guide to Cloudcroft, New Mexico.
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